I know it’s really exhausting most of the time, but if you’re going to mock or denigrate another person’s worldview, it would be very, I don’t know, helpful/considerate/smart, to try to understand it. And once you’ve done that, and you’re still going to tear it down, the next step would be to explain why it’s wrong. Especially if you’re a “news outlet.” Just a thought.
I ran across this article: Atheism – Part I: Authority. Honestly, I can’t wait to read the rest of this series from the El Dorado Hills [California] Telegraph. I’m not familiar with this publication, so maybe this is par for the course for them. I’m not going to explore any further, because I have enough to deal with from this one page. I’m just going to take all the lovely author’s comments in order. Let’s start with:
Allegedly there is “strong” atheism, “weak” atheism, “explicit” atheism and “implicit” atheism, “positive” atheists, “negative” atheists, “skeptics”, anti-theists and more. Atheist apologists will take full advantage of the situation, usually taking a position whereby they can hold that the possibility of God’s existence is so remote and untenable that it is worthy of the most severe ridicule, yet leave a door open to the possibility just wide enough to claim that they are still “open-minded”, avoiding accusations of absolutism (being “absolutely certain” of something’s non-existence is logically untenable, so they avoid this trap).
Well, I’ve mentioned before that I can only speak for myself, because – as the author so kindly pointed out – there are many different views related to atheism. But in my experience, a wide majority of atheists genuinely don’t belive with 100% certainty that there is no god, because there is no empirical evidence that confirms or denies an existence conclusively. The atheist’s position is typically a result of looking at the evidence presented for the case of god and finding unsatisfactory. So, while the author isn’t entirely inaccurate that atheists won’t generally lean toward absolutism, it is not an artifact intended to create some facade of fairness, or hedging our bets if you will. It is born from reason and a true willingness to be wrong. This is not something to be derided. It actually should be a model anyone of any belief should consider.
Some atheists even go beyond confusion to absurdity by claiming that theists are in fact “atheists” too – to all the false gods that they don’t believe in (i.e., Thor, Zeus, etc. “Atheists just go one God further” is the cute quip).
Sorry, but aside from reducing it to a “cute quip,” why is this argument absurd?Are you, in fact, not an azeusist or an athorist? It’s actually meant to offer a little insight to people who believe in a particular god and not all of them. Apparently, that was lost on you. But by all means, dismiss it as absurd.
Few will ever tell you exactly what they believe.
Well, I don’t know all the atheists in the world, but I do know very few who won’t express their ideas openly when asked. Based on what I’ve seen so far, I’d wager you simply aren’t listening, or just aren’t hearing what you want to hear. But that’s just a guess.
Atheism is not so much about the existence or non-existence of the supernatural (note that a recent study found that atheists were actually MORE likely to believe in pseudo-scientific things like horology, astrology, crystals, etc. than were fundamentalist Christians, believe it or not!); rather, Atheism is – at its root – a rejection of moral authority.
Well, you blew my going-in-order plan right out of the water, didn’t ya? Because right in the middle of this outrageous sentence, you inserted some study without any clue as to where to find it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to deny it. Atheism, at its core, is only the refutation of the existence of any god. It doesn’t preclude belief in other supernatural elements. Though, many atheists arrive at the position on the existence of god(s) based on reason and a lack of evidence, so it very often follows the lack of evidence for other pseudoscience would play a role, too. That’s just my hypothesis; I have no evidence for it. But you’re not playing fair when you mention this ephemeral study and won’t let me learn more about its methodology or its conclusions. So, pony up or leave it out.
Now, I’ve already described a mechanism through which most atheists I know (including myself) arrived at calling themselves atheists. I have very little doubt that there are atheists who are interested solely in a “rejection of moral authority.” There are probably people of any faith interested in that, statistically speaking. But here’s the deal: evolution drives a moral authority. Society drives a moral authority. Conscience drives a moral authority. A human’s deepest instincts say that if they’re not nice to that human over there, that other human will punish them for it, or at least won’t be nice back. That’s the ethic of reciprocity. Today, we know it as the Golden Rule, because that’s what Christians called it when they repackaged it as their own idea. I talk more about this on my Common Atheist Myths page. There’s a link to it here somewhere, go check it out. Really. Because this is a common argument, and it’s simply not true. You’ve not broken some new ground here, you’re just [again] not hearing the answer that’s been given time and time again.
A bald demonstration of this is found in Ben Stein’s excellent movie “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed”…
Er, proving my point for me – this movie has been pretty thoroughly discredited, so clearly you’re not interested in hearing the other side. Oh, sorry – continue.
Stein rightly points out the hypocrisy of Dawkins’ view that practically any wacky theory of how life might have begun on our planet can be seriously entertained by him – including through “the backs of crystals” or by “space aliens” – yet the far more plausible idea creation by an intelligent Creator is “insane” and “wicked” to him. But what is the difference between “space aliens” and God? Why is it that Dawkins can allow a “space alien” theory, but not a God theory? What is the difference?
Um, you could hear Dawkins talking in that piece, right? I’ve blocked that farce of a movie from my mind in the interest of maintaining sanity, but I’m pretty sure I don’t remember Dawkins saying anything like, “You know, Benny boy, by Jove, you’re right!”
The difference is that scientists have actually found evidence that could potentially support a panspermia model. And the evidence is remarkably overwhelming for evolution, I don’t even know which site to link you to. There are so many reputable universities and researchers sharing information online, just do a little bit of research on it. Try actually paying attention to the huge consensus trying to show the world why they shouldn’t just be believed, but what the geologic history is practically screaming at us.
It is AUTHORITY. If it were indeed space aliens that got life going here on earth, we would thank them perhaps, wouldn’t we – but we wouldn’t owe them any obedience, would we?
Sorry, but you’re the one being downright absurd now. Is that really what you thought he meant, or are you being egregiously facetious to make your point? Watch the movie again. Try REALLY LISTENING to Dawkins like a serious person, not someone who’s predisposed to your own opinion and mocking every different one that comes along.
There is also sociological evidence that issues with authority – and specifically one’s relationship to their father – underlay one’s decision to become an atheist, not rational thought. In his book “Faith of the Fatherless”, psychologist Dr. Paul Vitz chronicles the lives of over 12 prominent atheists and compares to prominent theists in contemporaneous situations. In every case, the theists had good relationships with their fathers, while the atheists had relationships that were described as turbulent, abusive or absentee.
Okay. What the hell does that have to do with anything? How did he choose the people he studied? Was it some random sample of prominent atheists, or the the ones who fit the mold he was trying to portray? It’s not “evidence” if there wasn’t some scientific method applied to acquiring and interpreting it. And now you’ve mentioned some correlation, but done nothing to make it meaningful or interpretive. Some weird form of poisoning the well, I think.
For the record, I never knew my father. But I had a very kind, caring father figure in my life with whom I had a loving and healthy relationship. So in your correlation, does that mean that I should be a theist or an atheist? See, nothing’s so black and white.
We’ll see what atheists mean by “morality” in “Part II: Morality”, tomorrow.
Can’t wait. Sure I’ll see you then.